SmallBizLady: Your new book is called “Adversaries Into Allies.” What is the basic premise and intent?
Bob Burg: Whether in business or personally, we constantly must work with people whose agenda is not our agenda. To the degree that we can gently and effectively persuade this person to our viewpoint (and the correct action), that’s the degree to which we’ll be successful. The key is that THEY must feel good about the results, about themselves, and about us. This is what constitutes what I call “Ultimate Influence.”
SmallBizLady: How does one become an ultimate influencer? What IS “Influence”?
Bob Burg: I define influence as the ability to move a person(s) to a desired outcome, usually within the context of a specific goal. As Dr. John Maxwell says, “Influence is everything.” And, when you think about it, in the business context that makes a lot of sense. After all, you can have the best ideas, but if you cannot gently move people to action, nothing is going to happen.
SmallBizLady: You mention words like gently and tactfully? Why is that important?
Bob Burg: Influence can be either through force (including manipulation) or persuasion. Force might cause people to comply with you but never to commit. And, the difference in results is huge. As Dondi Scumaci says, “Compliance will never take you…where commitment can go.”
SmallBizLady: In the book, you discuss the “Five Principles of Ultimate influence.” What are they?
Bob Burg: They are, 1) Control Your Own Emotions; 2) Understand The Clash of Belief Systems; 3) Acknowledge Their Ego; 4) Set The Proper Frame; 5) Communicate With Tact and Empathy. In every potentially difficult discussion or dealing with another person, one or more of those will come into play. Once you understand these, you are in the perfect position to create a situation where both of you come away as winners and feeling great! That’s Ultimate Influence.
SmallBizLady: Really, this book is about mastering people skills, isn’t it? Why is that so important?
Bob Burg: All things being equal, people will do business with and refer business to, those people they know, like and trust. While we human beings are both logical and emotional, we make our decisions mainly emotionally. And, regardless of whether correct or incorrect, we will often accept ideas only from those people we both like and trust; “like” really being the key. Those with powerfully developed people skills have a decided advantage when it comes to success over those who don’t have them.
SmallBizLady: Are there those with excellent people skills who are manipulative and ill-intended?
Bob Burg: Absolutely, there are. That’s why I say: “There’s nothing more dangerous than a bad person with good people skills.” Those are the manipulators who will take advantage of others and can even ruin (and have ruined) people’s lives. It’s also why I share in the book how to tell when you are most likely being manipulated by someone.
SmallBizLady: What are some tips for recognizing when someone might be trying to manipulate you?
Bob Burg: A manipulator will play on your negative emotions in order to elicit your compliance. In other words, if you fail to comply with their request, (s)he will try and make you feel bad, selfish, naïve, foolish, guilty, etc. The intent is to cause you to bend to their will in order to relieve yourself of these negative feelings. The key is for you to be aware of having these feelings and understand what they REALLY mean.
SmallBizLady: You make some very controversial points in your book. One is that people do things only for their reasons? Are people that selfish?
Bob Burg: People’s main motivation is happiness and this is only attained by acting in accordance with one’s values. Thus, it’s very reasonable that people will do things either because it provides them with a direct benefit or a good feeling. For example, while giving to charity might cost them money, it’s more than made up by the good feeling they have. This is the natural result of their acting in accordance with their value system of giving to charity.
SmallBizLady: What does that have to do with influence and persuasion?
Bob Burg: Dale Carnegie taught us many hugely valuable lessons in “How to Win Friends & Influence People”, his timeless classic. One of them was, “People do things for THEIR reasons; not OUR reasons.” What this says is that, if your goal is to influence someone and earn their commitment (as opposed to temporary compliance), you must make sure that whatever it is you want to accomplish is in alignment with THEIR goals, THEIR wants, THEIR needs, THEIR desires. People who do this genuinely and authentically become superb influencers and great leaders.
SmallBizLady: Principle #1 is all about controlling your own emotions, isn’t it?
Bob Burg: Indeed, the book actually begins with a saying from the Sages: “Who is mighty? That person who can control their own emotions and make, of an enemy, a friend.” Of course, it needn’t be a literal enemy. But, the point is, only when you are in control of yourself and your emotions (rather than your emotions controlling you) can you take an otherwise negative situation and turn it around for everyone’s benefit. THAT is the truly mighty person.
SmallBizLady: You talk about setting the proper frame, which is Principle #4. What is that about?
Bob Burg: A frame is basically a premise; it’s the foundation of everything that results. Set a proper frame for the transaction – one in which the other person immediately feels good about you – and you are 80 percent of the way toward the win/win outcome you desire. But, what about when they begin with a bad attitude or negative frame? The onus is then on you to re-set it for them. You cannot depend upon the other person to understand these things, as most people are totally unconscious that these powerful principles even exist.
SmallBizLady: You spend a lot of time in the book showing us how to be tactful and empathetic. Why?
Bob Burg: You can control your own emotions, understand the clash of belief systems, acknowledge their ego and set (or reset) the proper frame, but without communicating with tact and empathy it will all be for naught. My Dad defines tact as, “The language of strength.” Learn how to do this and the positive and genuine results you’ll receive when working with others will be absolutely powerful. Fortunately, tact and empathy can both be learned, and actually, learned very easily.
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